President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan discussed foreign policy and the global agenda as a guest on American PBS channel while in New York to attend the 77th session of the United Nations (UN) General Assembly.
When asked who currently has the upper hand in the Russia-Ukraine war, President Erdoğan responded, “In fact, as a leader, I am not willing to consider ‘Which country is more effective, Russia or Ukraine? ‘All we want is for this war to be over peacefully. I have made this request and recommendation to both Mr Putin and Mr Zelenskyy. There is no winner in a war that results in human casualties.”
Stating that they worked very hard to open the grain corridor and that their efforts paid off with the agreement in Istanbul, President Erdoğan said, “From there, agricultural exports of more than 2 million tonnes and almost 3 million tonnes were made. A new phase has begun, with products in Russia being made available to the rest of the world. Of course, my only goal in this process is to ship products to developing or underdeveloped countries, not to developed countries. If we can accomplish this, developing and underdeveloped countries will at least use these products to bounce back. “
“Putin is likewise striving to end this as quickly as possible”
When asked how the Russia-Ukraine war may end quickly, President Erdoğan responded that Russia’s stance is crucial here.
Stating that he had in-depth talks with President Vladimir Putin of Russia in Uzbekistan, President Erdoğan said, “I came to realise that they are likewise striving to end this as quickly as possible. This is going to be a major problem. For instance, currently, an agreement has been reached between the parties on the exchange of 200 hostages. This is a good development because it represents a significant step forward. Our friends are currently carrying out its technical aspect. With this, we will have made good progress. Additionally, our designated friends and technical staff carry out the process of agricultural products in detail. Of course, these are positive developments as well, but in this case, Ukraine should have the same understanding as Russia, and it is now vital to have a shared determination to end these conflicts and this war.
Stating that the return of the lands that were seized is crucial if peace between Russia and Ukraine is to be reached, President Erdoğan said, “This is what people want and desire. Mr Guterres has already taken some steps in this regard. We have also taken some steps. Providing these returns, which we hope, together with these steps, actually makes our job easier. “
Noting that they have been asking President Putin of Russia to give the owners of Crimea their land back since 2014, President Erdoğan said, “We said, ‘These are also our compatriots. If you take this step, you will relieve us, you will relieve Ukraine, and you will relieve the Crimean Tatars. Unfortunately, since then, no steps have been taken in this regard. “
“No leader would say, ‘I made a mistake,’ after their actions”
When asked, “Do you think Putin is aware that he miscalculated by failing to account for the Ukrainian people’s determination to defend themselves?” President Erdoğan responded:
“No leader would say, ‘I made a mistake,’ after their actions. This needs to be noticed. Surely, while saying this, Ukraine should be given the same consideration. I wonder if Mr Zelenskyy feels he made a mistake by taking such a step. Obviously, it is rather difficult for leaders to return from a route they have already chosen. In Poland alone, there are currently over 3 million Ukrainian refugees. Ukrainian immigrants go to various European countries, even to Türkiye. Given all these aspects, nearly 5 million immigrants have now fled Ukraine. Obviously, it is difficult for a leader to bear this, that is, the departure of so many people from Ukraine, a country with a population of 35-36 million. This is not an easy thing for a leader to explain. However, leaders seldom express regret over this issue.”
President Erdoğan answered the question, “Was this invasion justified by the Russians?” as follows:
“No invasion can be justified. Rather than us, Mr Zelenskyy and Mr Putin can better explain the invasion’s cause-and-effect relationship. They have the most in-depth knowledge of the underlying causes. As a country with a balanced foreign policy, Türkiye will listen to both sides while evaluating these issues. This is why we have a persistent desire to bring these leaders together. We hope to meet them in order to hear their perspectives on the issue. We have not succeeded yet, but I am not without hope.”
“The UN should give the ideal answer as a result of its activities”
President Erdoğan answered the question, “They found mass graves where the Russian troops had left. Who do you think should be held responsible?” as follows:
“Regarding this issue, I believe the United Nations should give the ideal answer as a result of its activities. Unless the United Nations discloses the activities it has done or will do, it would not be appropriate for us as a country that follows a balanced foreign policy to adopt a position or make a statement on this matter; otherwise, we will appear as a partial country.”
President Erdoğan answered the question, “If the UN investigations show that there is evidence that Russian soldiers committed these atrocities, should Putin be held responsible?” as follows:
If that is the case, Putin will show his stance as necessary. It’s not right to consider Putin as an entirely different person because he prioritises his country’s interests and is fighting for them. Right now, in the war between these two countries, we are talking comprehensively with both Mr Putin and Mr. Zelenskyy. And likewise, the United Nations Secretary-General continues his talks with Mr Putin and Mr Zelenskyy. What does that mean? If we are going to reach a conclusion, we should strive to achieve a result by meeting with both leaders rather than siding with one of them. However, we need to understand this as well. Not only are the Ukrainians dying, but there are so many casualties on the Russian side.
President Erdoğan responded to the show host’s comment, “But Russia invaded,” by stating:
“That’s a different fact. Yes, it was done. But prior to the outbreak of this war, many things had happened, and they escalated dramatically due to war. There has been a decline recently. As I previously stated, the United Nations, in particular, has to fulfil its responsibilities swiftly and reach a conclusion. And upon that conclusion, we need to put forward our stance for what it is. That’s why, for instance, we are taking steps to overcome the hostage crisis, and we have reached a certain level. On the other hand, we have taken steps regarding the grain corridor based on this. We have also reached a certain level on this issue. So, it is not about pushing one leader to the one side and defending the other. This is not how we will cultivate results, and as Türkiye, we are currently trying to cultivate this result.
“We negotiate with all countries in the world”
Upon the question “You have the intention to join Shanghai Cooperation Organisation. Russia, China and Iran are members of this organisation. This is a fundamentally different organisation with very different values and goals than NATO. Do you want your country to be a part of the East or the West?” President Erdoğan made the following statement:
“I must state unequivocally that we are a part of the world; neither East nor West... A big portion of our country is geographically located in the east. The western part is separate. Despite keeping us busy for the past 52 years, the European Union has not granted Türkiye membership. In the European Union, there is no other country in our situation. They still keep us busy. However, we are a NATO country. Despite the fact that we are a NATO member, even NATO countries keep us busy in the European Union process. We rank among the top five countries with the support we provide within NATO. We have such a position in NATO.
It is undoubtedly very meaningful for us that Türkiye, which holds a strong position, is kept at bay through distraction tactics. We may unavoidably need to seek other alternatives. After denying us admission for 52 years, the EU is suddenly questioning why we met with certain parties. We will meet with whomever we wish, and we do not have to provide the EU with any explanation. We negotiate with all countries in the world. I meet with either Mr Xi, Mr Putin, or Mr Modi. I negotiate with all countries in the world as we are all a part of this world. When we had negotiations with the European Union member states, we were not questioned about why we met them. We will go through the process with them in the same manner that we do with the members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation.
Upon the question, “As Türkiye, are you prepared to permanently block Sweden and Finland from joining NATO?” President Erdoğan said, “Here especially, Sweden has been a breeding ground for terrorism.”
Stating that terrorists have infiltrated all the way into the parliament in Sweden, President Erdoğan said:
“In the streets of Stockholm, we see terrorists holding demonstrations, with the banners and the posters of terrorist organisation’s ringleader. They attack the innocent Turkish people in Stockholm. And we have given all the evidence relevant to these developments to our Swedish interlocutors. If you ask, ‘Is it the same in Finland, also?’, they are not like Sweden. They are a bit calmer and have more control over the developments. But Sweden is not like that. They’re always using certain reasons. They always talk about the Constitution and, as the mandatory provision of the Constitution, they value the freedom of expression. And in return, I say terrorism has nothing to do with the freedom of expression. The definition of freedom cannot encompass terrorism. Therefore, if you put forward your struggle against these terrorists, we will give all kinds of support in this regard. And the Turkish Parliament is the eventual decision-maker on this issue.
I believe it is important to add one more point here, following these meetings, we regrettably witnessed the continuous marches of these terrorists through the streets of Stockholm. They have had an election recently. The newly elected party said that it would not allow them. I hope these terrorists are not permitted in Sweden, and we will offer them any support we can.”
Upon the question, “If Sweden and Finland don’t accept whatever Türkiye asks for, are you determined to just permanently block Sweden and Finland from joining NATO? President Erdoğan replied, “Any unfavourable reaction from any of the NATO members on this issue prevents this admission anyway.”
President Erdoğan recalled that the government of the Republic of Türkiye, which was in office at the time, had backed Greece’s readmission into NATO and said, “Greece would not be in NATO today if we had ‘rejected,’ but because of its constructive stance, Greece now has the opportunity to re-enter NATO. We are now faced with a similar scenario here. We will adopt a constructive attitude if these conditions are met. But that will not happen if terrorist actions continue here”.
“We have never discriminated between them and we never will”
Stating that NATO is not a supporter of terrorist organisations but rather a vehement opponent of terrorism, President Erdoğan said, “NATO’s fifth article is explicitly focused on the collective defence of its members, which we naturally expect. Because we have been combating terrorism for the past 40 years.”
President Erdoğan replied the question, “There is the issue of Kurds not only in Sweden and Finland but also in Syria, Iraq and in your own country. How do you think this issue can be resolved?” as follows:
“First of all, if you consider it as a Kurdish-Turkish issue, you would be wronged. The issue is entirely a matter of terrorists and non-terrorists. Currently, there are Kurds and Arabs in northern Syria. When you look at it from our side, there are Kurds among these tribes, and there are more Arabs. We have Kurdish executive friends and Kurdish deputies in our party, as well. There is no problem among ourselves. Furthermore, we are currently the second party in my country’s southeast and eastern regions, and we can garner a significant number of votes from these areas, where the majority of the residents are Kurdish. As the AK Party, we receive a large number of votes from these Kurdish-majority regions. As the government, we have made significant investments in these areas. In other words, saying things like, ‘This is a Kurdish region; let’s not invest here,’ does not fit our philosophy or programs. Turkish, Kurdish, and Arab citizens are among my citizens. We have never discriminated between them and we never will. We are currently in the same situation. Our approach to all of our citizens is consistent. It will continue in this manner.”
“This issue disturbs us the most”
In response to the question, “Millions of Syrians were forced to flee their country. Many of them live in your country. In your opinion, how will the Syrian conflict unfold?” President Erdoğan said, “Of course, this issue disturbs us the most because four million Syrians are in our country, the majority of whom are Arabs. They are our guests.”
President Erdoğan stated that Syrians, including doctors, engineers, lawyers, midwives, and nurses, have been granted Turkish citizenship and made the following remarks:
“Such qualified people expect something from you, and we did not leave them in the lurch. We helped them in any way we could. But we’ve taken a new step. We are currently constructing briquette houses in a specific area of Syria, particularly in the north. These briquette houses have two bedrooms and one living room, including restrooms, toilets and everything. We have constructed their infrastructure. Our initial goal is to build 100,000 houses and then continue to expand. So, why are we doing these things? This was done so that Syrians could return to their home countries. It’s impossible to bear the fact that these people are condemned to an inhumane existence in those uninhabitable tents. We sought assistance from a variety of sources, including the European Union. Unfortunately, we were unable to obtain this assistance. I had private meetings with a number of leaders. However, Türkiye built these houses with its own national budget and with the help of non-governmental organisations. Our goal is now to increase the number of these briquette houses to 250 thousand and ensure that our Syrian guests return to their home countries.”
President Erdoğan stated that the return of Syrians living in Türkiye has begun and that the initial goal is to achieve one million.
“We rank second in terms of growth”
In response to the question, “How can Türkiye’s inflation problem be solved?” President Erdoğan stated:
“Inflation is not a crippling economic threat. I’m an economist. There are currently countries threatened by inflation rates of 8 per cent and 9 per cent. This rate is 80 per cent in our country. We are currently a country with 250 billion dollars in exports. In my country, supermarket shelves are not empty. However, even in the US today, the shelves are empty, as are the shelves in France and Germany. In the supermarkets, my citizens can now find any product they desire. For instance, we have recently taken a new step. That is, our Agricultural Credit Cooperatives sell products at extremely low prices. These products are far more affordable than those found in other chain supermarkets. Inflation is currently a concern for us, but we will surmount it after the New Year and continue on our path with resolve. Türkiye’s current growth rate is 7.6 per cent. We currently rank second in the world in terms of growth, which says something.”
When asked about “2023 Elections in Türkiye,” President Erdoğan stated, “We have no concerns about winning the elections. I know how to appeal to a crowd in a public square. If I can gather tens of thousands of people in the squares where I am currently holding mass opening ceremonies and rallies, this is a show of the favour our people have for us. No one can prevent us as long as our people continue to favour us. Since there is no other alternative.”
Explaining how Türkiye cannot be compared to Western countries in any department, from the defence industry to health and education, given the initiatives it has undertaken, President Erdoğan went on to say:
“If only you would come and inspect our education and health systems in person. We are a country whose performance cannot be compared to that of the West in any respect. This is why we are without an alternative. We are currently in a position where I hope we will win these elections. I won the presidency with a 52 per cent share of the vote. Now, our objective in the upcoming elections is to win in the same way. We have adopted the presidential system of government. Our opposition, however, upholds the parliamentary system rather than the presidential system, under which Türkiye held elections every seven, eight, ten, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, and sixteen months for years and the governments changed. Does stability stand a chance in such a country? What was the outcome of the lack of stability? Türkiye constantly lagged behind. We said that we would switch to the presidential system, and we have now done so. Additionally, we partially based our system on the American one. With the presidential system, Türkiye has taken a totally different route, and we have moved our country to a highly advantageous point along this path.”
Upon the question, “What shape would you say the Türkiye-US relationship is in?” President Erdoğan said, “I can’t say that our relations are ideal because our trade volume with the United States is not supposed to be where it is today. During the Trump administration, we determined that we needed to reach the 100-billion-dollar target. Currently, we are significantly behind the track. President Erdoğan emphasised that Türkiye-US trade volume should not be 20, 25, or 30 billion dollars, adding, “We have to exceed these.”
“Imposition of sanctions between two friendly countries is wrong”
President Erdoğan pointed to how the Türkiye-US relationship is not at the desired level in the defence industry and said:
“We need to get the defence industry back on track. For example, we have the F-16 issue. We have procured F-16s from the US. Given that, you must keep the ball rolling. But instead, certain political decisions are being made, resulting in the imposition of sanctions upon Türkiye. This is the wrong thing to do between two friendly countries, such as the US and Türkiye. Mr Biden pledged to resolve this issue most recently. I am aware that Biden is currently taking a favourable stance. We have also spoken to the Republicans, and we have received the support of the Republicans. What will we do if we can’t get results about F-16 systems from the US? We will handle it ourselves. You will go and provide all kinds of support for the F-16 jets to Greece, and you will establish bases there, but you will not do the same for a friendly NATO country like Türkiye, which ranks among the top five in terms of support for the alliance. In this case, Türkiye’s job is to take care of itself. Otherwise, we don’t have a problem with the US.”