An interview titled “Türkiye and NATO” was held by the Presidency’s Directorate of Communications with the participation of experts as part of the NATO Summit in Brussels.
Amanda Paul, Senior Policy Analyst at the European Policy Centre (EPC), answered questions in an interview titled “Türkiye and NATO” organised by the Directorate of Communications.
Being recalled of the Covid-19 pandemic and the presidential election in the U.S, Paul answered the question “How do you think these 18 months changed NATO?” as follows: “NATO is going through a transformation that actually predates the last 18 months.”
Pointing out that the reasons that NATO was created in the first place all those years ago changed significantly, Paul highlighted that the world moved into a new era of different types of security threats that were not based on the original hard security.
Stating that the Covid-19 pandemic represented a new sort of security threat to the entire world, Paul said that there was disinformation and hybrid warfare that sort of emanated out of the pandemic.
Expressing that the security of supply chains was another key issue during the pandemic, Paul said, “I think we're in the process of transforming. We don't know what the end result is going to be.”
Upon being asked, “At 2019 Summit, Secretary-General was asked to prepare a report about the future of NATO, and the 2030 report was prepared. What do you think about this report? And do you think the recommendations that the rapporteurs provided in this document are feasible or adaptable?” Paul said that the summit was a starting point to elaborate on some of the proposals that were put forward in that report.
Expressing that the report provided eight proposals, Paul stated the following:
“I don't think there's going to be any conclusion at the end of the summit. I mean, that would be far too much wishful thinking. But obviously, these proposals are really taking NATO in a different direction, working on issues that weren't there before, whether it's cybersecurity, green security, health security, China, for example. It's a lot of different issues. And I don't see that we have that solidarity from all member states on all of these issues. There are different views and different visions. So it's about coming together to have more of an exchange on these points and then moving on from there.”
“Everything can change again in 2024”
Paul answered the questions “How optimistic should NATO countries be about the summit? Are you reassured by the US President Biden’s statements about NATO? Do you think it is sufficient?” as follows: “All NATO member states were really happy with the election of Joe Biden because, as we know, his predecessor made some very worrying statements about NATO. And that isn't the case now.”
Reminding that the US President reassured the allies that the United States was there and was going to stay there, Paul said that he did repeat some of the same messages that Trump was saying, one of which was meeting “the two per cent defence spending”. Amanda Paul continued as follows:
“Everything can change again in 2024. So that means that NATO members shouldn't sit on their laurels, as they say in English. They need to be more proactive in terms of meeting defence spendings but also taking steps nationally to meet a lot of NATO goals, which are building resilience in their own states and working together in a more comprehensive way. Because, over the last years, you could see there is a lot of differences between the allies on different topics, which sort of questions a lot of the processes that are going on internally. Yes, we need the United States. The United States is obviously the biggest and most powerful actor in NATO. But at the same time, the other member states still need to step up and do more.”
“You need to look at the bigger picture”
When being asked about “Türkiye’s contribution to NATO”, Paul said that there had been some problems, more than a few, over the last few years with some member states of NATO and Türkiye that had not seen eye to eye.
Emphasising that Türkiye was always and would continue to be a staunch ally within NATO, Paul said, “I mean, just looking at the Black Sea and the Mediterranean, Türkiye is on the front line against Russian expansionism in those regions. And I sometimes think this is not enough appreciated.”
Recalling the messages from some NATO allies, Paul stated the following:
“I'm going to mention (French President Emmanuel) Macron here, but he's not the only one that seems to incessantly complain about Türkiye and say that Türkiye's not an ally and questioning Türkiye's membership of the alliance. But I think you need to look at the bigger picture. Obviously, he's referred to Türkiye in Syria or Türkiye in the Eastern Mediterranean where he's seen and not only have the same Türkiye playing a more malign role, but again, you need to have a more nuanced position, because if you look at the broader picture of what Türkiye actually contributes to NATO, not just now, but over the decades, it's been massive. And if you ask other NATO allies who also influence President Macron, you'll get a different answer. They'll say that ‘Türkiye remains a bulwark of European security’. Its position is irreplaceable. Türkiye is also the only large Muslim country in NATO, and that's unique in itself.”
“We have seen Türkiye cooperate"
Emphasising that there was a lot of bashing that Türkiye blocked certain decisions within NATO, Paul said, “Türkiye is not the only country that blocks. We've seen Türkiye go ahead with some things that it was not that particularly keen on in the past.”
Recalling that Türkiye re-joined the Baltic Policing Mission, Paul said, “To me, it symbolises that Türkiye recognises we will double down on the need to boost NATO's presence and position on the eastern flank.”
Paul underlined that Türkiye remained a reliable and crucial partner.
In response to the question, “Türkiye has offered to have an international conference on the Eastern Mediterranean. How likely do you think there would be an international conference? And looking forward, what do you think should be the way to resolve these disputes?” Paul said, “Of course, that would be great to have an international conference. Whether it's going to happen or not remains to be seen. But ultimately, the issues in the Eastern Mediterranean go back to the Cyprus problem.”
"There seems to be a tendency to blame Türkiye "
Indicating that if the Cyprus problem was resolved, there would be no issues in the Eastern Mediterranean, Paul said, “But unfortunately, it doesn't look like this is going to happen.”
Pointing out that there seemed to be a tendency to blame Türkiye for the non-resolution of the Cyprus issue, Paul highlighted that they could not blame Türkiye for the crumbling of the Annan plan back in 2004 and the talks.
Expressing that there needed to be a different approach, Paul stated that there needed to be perhaps more pressure put onto the Greek Cypriots vis-à-vis this.
"A very good opportunity"
Tacan İldem, Member of NATO 2030 Experts Group, former NATO Assistant Secretary-General, stated that the NATO Summit meeting to bring together all allied heads of state and government would provide a very good opportunity to reinforce transatlantic bonds and solidify the unity and cohesion and solidarity among allies.
Stating that they came up with 138 specific recommendations in the report entitled “NATO 2030 United for a New Era”, İldem said that one of the recommendations was the updating of the strategic concept.
Indicating that NATO needed to sharpen its capacity in dealing with resilience, İldem noted the following:
“Resilience has become a keyword in our time with complex security issues. Resilience is something that relates to the national competence of individual allied nations but definitely, to set certain requirements and benchmarks against which allies could measure their performance and readiness would be important. And there are also other domains like the security implications of climate change. And this would need to be addressed in the strategic concept.”
"Türkiye is a key ally"
Underlining that for Türkiye, fighting terrorism was an important issue, İldem said, “Türkiye suffered a lot out of terrorism. And in our report, NATO 2030: United for a New Era, we emphasise that it poses an immediate and asymmetric threat to NATO and the individual allies. And with all its manifestations, we need to cooperate efficiently.”
Reminding that they proposed that since that was a crosscutting issue, it needed to be explicitly incorporated in the three core tasks of NATO, İldem pointed to the importance of the NATO-EU cooperation.
Emphasising that Türkiye was a key ally, making substantial contributions not only to collective defence efforts but also to all operations and missions of NATO, İldem noted that the differences could be resolved with mutual understanding and mutual respect.
Ambassador Stefano Manservisi, former Head of EU Delegation to Türkiye and Special Advisor to EU Commissioner for Economy Paolo Gentiloni, answered questions during the interview titled "Türkiye and NATO".
In response to the question of whether NATO could play an effective role in rescuing the member countries during the novel coronavirus (Covid-19) pandemic and whether NATO underwent a transformation together with the US elections, Manservisi expressed that the entire world changed during this process and said, "I mean, a lot of certainties, a lot of fixed points of reference also changed, after the financial crisis, then the pandemic. These have shown us several things. It has shown how fragile we are all together. It has shown how technology is changing the world. These are shown and also the positioning of different countries around the world. You know, we are thinking about China, we are thinking about Russia, but we are thinking about ourselves."
Explaining that the pandemic changed the world, Manservisi stated that the role of NATO was part of this discussion.
Noting that NATO would come out of this period, Manservisi said that NATO was seen as essentially a military alliance during the Cold War and immediately after it, and that the founding treaty of NATO was speaking about values, values of democracy.
Pointing out that NATO is a political alliance with economic consequences based on the military operations, Manservisi stated, "So I think that all these parts were a bit, let us say, left aside. Now they are very forcefully coming out because everybody is increasingly thinking about the fact that they are not just military allies, but also part of a community."
Stressing that NATO would not miss the opportunity to think about itself regarding the 2030 report, Manservisi noted the following,
"Therefore, the final result that the Secretary-General will present next year will be crucial. Preparatory works are interesting for two reasons. First, the process is not just a discussion among specialists of security matters. It is a discussion and a consultation process involving stakeholders of all kinds. Simply the definition of stakeholder use, civil society, you know, groups of economic interest, is quite different from usual. So, it means that the report of the future is not just about military, it is about economics, it is about new technology, it is about the common way of assessing threats and how we can work together."
Expressing that there was a need for time after the NATO summit to take tangible steps, Manservisi stated that there were several factors which he took into consideration, one of which was the coming back of the United States.
Emphasising that the United States was obviously fully committed to NATO, Manservisi mentioned that people were also thinking, at the moment, that Trump could also get out from this structure and that the approach of Biden was particularly important.
Türkiye-NATO Relations
Manservisi also touched upon the Türkiye-NATO relations, noting that some important tensions inside were visible for everybody, that there was increasingly a sort of friction, divergence, even exchanges at the highest level with not really nice words and made the following assessment:
"These are, in my view, the elements showing that the whole problem is also hiding inside. Let us not focus on this as if they were the problem and the solution. The problem is the new dimension. Everybody is contributing, including Türkiye, because Türkiye is living and is experiencing in daily politics in one of the most unstabilised parts of the world. And, I used to say, strongly believing in the interest of the union in Türkiye to be close together, that Türkiye is managing the external borders of the union. And, that is one of the most difficult parts of the world.
Therefore, the foreign policy and security policy of Türkiye needs to be sometimes better understood by the other partners, the United States and the Europeans. But, at the same time, here is the real challenge. Türkiye has to bring all this within the alliance in order to contribute to this, the same thing in common and in order to contribute to having a common reply on all of the lines for the specific threats that Türkiye is dealing with, it is suffering. But this is not in just the region, it is a question also far away. Türkiye has big stakes in Central Asia, for example, this is an asset for NATO. Therefore, let us say today is quite dynamic. And I am sure that this will give a boost to a new relationship between the European Union and Türkiye. Because the two need each other like never ever before in this moment."